Meet your host, Emily
In this episode, we get to know Emily, one half of The Finance Girlies duo. Emily shares her journey from outdoor educator to freelance personal finance writer, her reasons behind the transition, and how she managed her own finances along the way. Emily highlights her experience with saving, opening a retirement account, and making career decisions that align with her values. Listen in as Emily shares how broadening her financial knowledge and taking calculated risks changed her relationship with work and money.
01:00 - Introduction and Emily's background
03:00 - Early savings habits and childhood money memories
05:00 - College years and first job
17:00 - Realizing the limitations of a low-paying job
21:00 - Discovering freelance writing during the pandemic
24:00 - The unexpected security of freelancing
28:00 - Why personal finance matters, especially for women
30:00 - The power of basic financial knowledge
31:00 - Wrapping up
Transcript
[00:00:00]
Cassidy: Welcome, welcome back to another episode of the finance girlies podcast. I'm Cassidy [00:01:00] and today we are going to hear Emily share her story and, just hear more about how she got interested in personal finance and what her journey with finance has looked like so far in life. So my episode was last week, or the previous episode, if you want to go back and hear that, but to start Emily, do you just want to share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Emily: So, like Cassidy, I am a freelance personal finance writer and I do some editing too. And I work with brands like Forbes Advisor, Yahoo Finance, Credible, Smart Asset and a few others. And, as we mentioned last week, this is how I met Cassidy. Almost three years ago, did we decide? Yeah, that's crazy. Outside of work I live in Michigan with my husband and our corgi, and I love being outside, [00:02:00] hiking, swimming, skiing, walking the dog in the woods.
Cassidy: And most importantly starts with a Q.
Emily: Quilting.
Cassidy: Quilting.
Emily: Yes, my new hobby I picked up this year. Kind of crafty things. I also love to cook and read.
Cassidy: We're just a bunch of crafty ladies over here.
Emily: Yes.
Cassidy: Are we grandmas at heart? Absolutely. No shame.
Emily: Yeah.
Cassidy: You want to tell us a little bit, maybe about like how you got interested in personal finance? Let's start at the beginning. I want all the details personally.
Emily: So I was thinking about this when we did your episode, how you mentioned you can't remember a time not being interested in personal finance. I don't think, I don't quite think that's true for me. I feel like there was definitely a moment in time where it just became much more of an interest to me. And that was [00:03:00] not until a couple of years after graduating college. I remember like as a kid, I was always a saver. Like I babysat and I would save any money I got for my birthday. And everything went to my bank savings account and my parents kind of taught me the idea that, oh, if it's in your savings account, that's not for spending.
Emily: And I, I kind of was like, well, I wonder what that'll be for. But , I was like, I don't know if that made sense to me.
Cassidy: Okay. I have a question. Do you remember just like innately wanting to save money or is that a conversation that your parents had with you? And I ask because I was not a saver as a kid at all. I spent every single penny the moment I got it. So I'm very interested in how you had the restraint save.
Emily: I don't remember. Yeah, I really don't remember. I'm sure it was something my parents talked about. I do remember like in high school when I started like doing things with my friends that cost [00:04:00] money, you know, like going to the movies or like going out to dinner or something. I Remember like at that point being like, I love spending money to do those things, but I also remember feeling like, oh, I need to be careful with my money because I don't like spending it all.
Like there was something about putting money in my savings account that Felt good to me, even at that age. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, thinking back. I don't totally know where that came from, but...
Cassidy: Would you like split your birthday money up? Like say someone gave you 20 for your birthday. Did it all go into savings, or did you have some type of thing you did to figure out how much to
Emily: I don't really think I had a system. I remember, like, you know, back in the day, before Venmo, obviously, you'd get paid for babysitting, like, in cash, so I'd always, have some cash on hand for, Yyou know, going to the coffee shop with my friends, whatever. Or like going to the movies, but I feel like anytime I got you know significant check for like my birthday [00:05:00] or Christmas from like my grandparents or something, something more than like, 20 bucks it was going in the, going in the savings account. That's how I remember it.
Cassidy: How old were you when you started babysitting?
Emily: I was 11. I was pretty young. Yeah, I was excited to earn money.
Cassidy: How old were the kids?
Emily: Like all ages, but yeah, like. I don't know, one to five or six, mostly maybe.
Cassidy: Okay, in my head. I'm just like you're 11 years old and you are a babysitting a...
Emily: Okay. The funny thing is this was, I guess my first like entrepreneurial journey was yeah. And in sixth grade, 11 years old, my best friend and I took like the babysitting class that, you know, the Red Cross babysitting class at like the community center or whatever. And we immediately after made flyers with our phone numbers. We, we, our whole thing was like two babysitters for the price of one, which. [00:06:00] I think, I don't know if we were like, we're only 11, like, maybe you'd feel better with two of us. But anyway, yeah, we were like the neighborhood babysitters for a while. And that was my first, like, aside from the lemonade stand, that was like my first time making money.
Cassidy: That is so freaking cute. If I saw a flyer like that today, two babysitters for the price of one, I'd be like, hired. You're so cute.
Emily: I mean, I look back and I'm like, wow. People did hire us. We were 11 years old, but different times, maybe? I don't know.
Cassidy: Yeah, maybe so. Okay, so you were just naturally kind of a saver as a kid.
Emily: Yeah, and then in college, I worked part time, I think starting freshman or sophomore year just to kind of have some fun. Some income coming in. I am very aware of how lucky I was to have my parents help me out during college and I didn't graduate with [00:07:00] any loans or anything. So that wasn't on my mind when I was starting to think about jobs and apply for jobs toward the end of college. I did. So I, during college, I took classes during the summers and studied abroad in the summer and just kind of accumulated credits faster than I needed to, to like stay on pace for a four-year degree. And the degree I was getting was, was not super rigorous. It was a blast. I studied environmental studies. Which like part of that degree was you had to go have some sort of field experience during college. So part of the reason I was like doing these summer classes. Anyway, I was able to graduate early. That was kind of like a deal I worked out with my parents was like, if I'm, you know, doing this extra stuff during the summer, I don't need to be in college for four whole years. So my last, like, what was my senior year? [00:08:00] I was a part-time student for just one semester and then graduated early. And that last year. What would have been like my last semester of college, I ended up, with an unpaid internship, uh, that it wasn't completely unpaid. It was a volunteer position at the end of which I received an award, they call it that, you can spend on certain types of like educational expenses, but I mean, essentially it was unpaid. And yeah, I definitely wouldn't have been able to do that if I had been in other financial circumstances, but it ended up leading to my first job out of college that spring.
So when I was trying to think of what I wanted to do after college I kind of had the impression that like, I was, I was in environmental studies. Like, I'm not going to make a lot of money.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Emily: People in my major who had like graduated before me were [00:09:00] like teaching, like maybe going abroad and doing the Peace Corps or like just kind of all over the board, there was no like direct path for people in my program, or that's how it felt. And yeah, so I kind of like, didn't set a bar for myself of like, this is what I want or need to make post-college. I just kind of continued to do what I had been doing, which is like, what. What sounds fun and interesting to me. So I ended up, moving to Jackson, Wyoming, which is where I had taken some of those summer courses during college and just fell in love with,
Cassidy: So to clarify the, to clarify the summer courses were like your field study.
Emily: I ended up actually getting summer jobs there too, a couple, two of the summers, which was like the best job ever working in the kitchen. But yeah, I was also there for class as well. Yeah, unlike maybe 95 percent of the people who move to Jackson, I did not move there to be a ski instructor. I worked at a [00:10:00] nonprofit teaching science to kids and adults, mostly kids. And it was like the best job ever. It was so much fun. Every day we were outside on the trails in Grand Teton National Park. In the summer we'd be in canoes, in the winter we'd snowshoe and ski. I taught a lot of the stuff that I had learned in college, which was actually like, I don't know, I didn't necessarily get that degree thinking this would all become super practical outside of college, but like, I was teaching geology that I had learned in college.
I was teaching about climate science and ecology and things like that. Anyway, it was like the most fun, satisfying job for a couple of years. And I loved it, but similar to you, Cassidy, my first job was, was not making me rich. And that's kind of how I got started like getting interested in personal finance. I was living in a really expensive town, wanting to do all these things like travel around [00:11:00] and take advantage of where I was living not making a lot of money to, like make all those things happen. And I was lucky in a lot of ways. Like, I had housing through my job that was, you know, more affordable than I would have been able to get otherwise. There was a period of time,
Cassidy: Because you're in a high cost of living area?
Emily: Yeah, there was even a period of time where I had housing for free for a few months in exchange for being on call. So there were ways in which I was super lucky and able to make things work. I was able to save a bit toward retirement. I mean, and again, I didn't have student loan debt or any other type of debt I had to worry about.
So I was able to like put everything I made you know, into either savings or, you know, after my bills were paid, which were quite low at the time. So yeah, that's how I got started. I, I just kind of. Listening to financial podcasts and reading books because I felt like even though I had picked up on some good financial habits from my [00:12:00] parents, I still felt like there was a ton to learn that I didn't have. I really just didn't know. And yeah, during that time, I like opened up a Roth IRA and started investing and opened up a high-yield savings account and, again, was babysitting on the side, making a lot more than I did when I was 11. And yeah, that was the first time I was like actively, felt like I was actively involved with my money and started kind of thinking about what my money could do for me. Yeah, that's kind of when that started. It wasn't enough right away where I was like, I need to make more money. I just loved my job so much that it was almost like, a point of pride that like I get to do this every day and it's okay if I don't make a lot of money, eventually that wasn't cool with me anymore, but like for the first couple of years the finance was just like something fun to like learn and start setting myself up for, but it wasn't like, oh, [00:13:00] I'm in a bad situation.
Cassidy: So do you think that was a belief handed to you throughout your like major was that just kind of the mindset that you all were here doing this really, really cool things, like money shouldn't matter to us, or where people actively complaining?
Emily: Both. So, I don't know. There's always, people always joke about like outdoor enthusiasts, not having a lot of money or spending the money they do have on like really nice outdoor gear, but like being broke otherwise, that's just kind of a trope that I think definitely, I saw. And I think also, again, the way I got this job was I volunteered essentially for five months before getting paid and that was how a lot of people ended up with that job as well. And so you have to have kind of have some level of privilege in order to do that. And so, yeah, I think the [00:14:00] people I was working with were not doing the job for the money. Like that just, that was kind of an expectation for better or worse.
Cassidy: And also when you go from volunteering for a job to getting paid anything.
Emily: Yeah, it feels amazing. And you're not going to complain about, yeah, totally. 100%.
Cassidy: I have another side question for you. Do you, have you always been interested in like the outdoors or how, how did your love for the outdoors come to be, because I'm fascinated. Did you grow up in a beautiful part of the country?
Emily: I grew up in a nice part of the world, the country, in Michigan which has a lot of, I mean, lakes, obviously and woods and like, not a ton of people. So like, there is a lot of green space here and I went camping a few times as a kid and like, went to summer camp as a kid too, where we would go on backpacking or overnight canoe trips, things like that. So that definitely, I probably underestimate how much that led to [00:15:00] my interest in the outdoors. But I think what really solidified it was In college, again, doing that field experience and going out West and like seeing mountains. Well, I shouldn't say it for the first time. I also like my parents took us on some trips growing up.
Like we went to the Grand Canyon and Maine and places around Michigan and that had always just kind of been something I enjoyed. But yeah, going to the mountains, the Rocky Mountains for the first time. And yeah, something about that being there for like a month and having enough time to really enjoy it and then going back each summer in college.
I think that just really solidified that for me. And also just living somewhere where you probably, Cassidy, experience this now, like living somewhere where people are super enthusiastic about being outside. It just rubs off on you. That was one of my favorite things about living out West.
Cassidy: Yeah, for sure. That's like one of the [00:16:00] biggest differences between where I grew up and where I live now. I grew up in Georgia and part of the reason why I'm so mesmerized and inspired by like your love of the outdoors is because I did not grow up with that at all. First of all, there are parts of Georgia that I'm sure people would agree are beautiful.
Very few parts. But for the most part, like it's, it's so hot all the time. Like you're not really getting out to do anything. I, I just felt like there was no accessing the outdoors or really going out in nature, really the only time you saw people outside walking is like if their car broke down.
And I do mean that literally, like, you, you just never saw people outside and I remember one of the first times I came to Seattle to visit, it was like, kind of drizzly and raining and there was still people like, out jogging out, walking their dog out with their kids. And I just remember being like, wow, everyone is just out here. Just living their life and exploring in it. It rubbed off [00:17:00] on me instantly. I was like, I want this to be my reality too.
Emily: Totally.
Cassidy: Okay. So you're talking about that. There came a point in time where you were working in this job, this low-paying job in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and you started to begin to feel like maybe the lack of pay isn't worth it, or maybe you do want to make more money. So talk us through kind of like that whole experience and, and what happened from there.
Emily: Well, I think some of the, initial spark wore off. I mean, it's hard to not have job satisfaction when you're, like, if you're listening and you have been to Grand Teton National Park, I think you know what I mean, it's hard to not just feel inspired every second when you're there, and that being where I worked, it just, was hard to not be happy. But that said, like, it was a super demanding job. And sometimes required, camping overnight and going up into [00:18:00] Yellowstone and dealing with really difficult groups of students and, you know, driving canoe trailers and all, just all kinds of things that like were so demanding physically and emotionally in all kinds of ways. And so eventually I think I recognized just how much work I was doing for the amount of pay I was earning. And ultimately I think it was like, even if I had been able to earn more, which just was not, was not really an option in, in the work I was doing. Even if I had been able to earn more, there was like so much else about the job that just wasn't for me anymore. And a lot of that was like, not having autonomy over my schedule. There were like things that I look back and like, yeah, of course I started freelancing because there were so many things that I struggled with. Aside from the pay, I remember at one point like my position lost sick days as a benefit. [00:19:00] And at that point, I just, I, I just could not believe that like getting sick was like a financial penalty for me. Working outside and, you know, 20 degree weather all winter and not getting a sick day. You know, for like a cold or whatever. Anyway, that was like kind of a breaking point.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Emily: So yeah, I would say it wasn't just the money, the more I got removed from it, the more I realized like, oh my goodness, I had such a skewed understanding of like what my work is worth and like what I deserve to earn or like what I'm capable of earning, all of those things.
So yeah, how things actually happened were COVID happened and my work completely shut down. Certain departments were able to continue. Working remotely, but my job was like teaching in person. And it depended on like students being able to travel to us from all over the country. So it was like totally wiped out. So yeah, at that time my then. [00:20:00] I guess fiance, we got engaged around this time and I had been thinking about moving to Michigan to be closer to family and to live somewhere more affordable.
The other thing about Jackson was that it was very difficult to put down roots. So many people came for like a year or two or like a season. And then left. It just didn't feel like a place where anyone could really afford to, buy a house, let alone, like, even rent a, rent a place that you wanted to live for more than a couple of years.
So yeah, we had already for those reasons, been kind of thinking about moving somewhere else pandemic happened, we decided , this is the time to move and start saving money because we had both lost our jobs and kind of moved without a plan, but it just felt like that was how things were at the time.
So yeah, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had loved my job so much that I was interested in staying in education and maybe earning a little more, [00:21:00] having a little more stability with like a classroom type job or something like that. But it was like a weird time to apply for jobs, a weird time to be a teacher. so it was kind of a blur of several months of applying to jobs, being really disappointed in what options there were and, you know, No one was hiring, and I ended up taking a part-time job at a bookstore because I love to read.
Cassidy: Wow.
Emily: Oh, well, I was like, looking for something a little more permanent. And during that time I stumbled into this freelance writing course that Cassidy mentioned last week. And yeah, like I was saying earlier, there was so much about working for someone else that I had realized over the last couple of years that I didn't love. And I was so tired of applying for jobs that I think I was at the point where like, nothing's working out. The world is uncertain. If there, [00:22:00] there has never been a better time to just , take a chance on something. And I went for it with the idea that like, freelancing would give me the ability to grow my income in a way that I wasn't able to with my previous job, it would give me a lot more autonomy. And also something I love about it now is I just don't think I am physically capable of sitting in an office all day. And I have never had a job that has required me to do that. And so like just being able to work when I want to work and like, if it's a nice day, like go to the beach and catch up on work later that was definitely another draw. So yeah, again maybe this has come across, and I know you know this about me, but like, finances, money, is important to me, of course, but it's never been, like, the biggest motivator, I think, when it comes to work, for me. And so, yes, it was a big part of me deciding to be a freelancer and like write about personal finance. But it was so [00:23:00] much, there was so much more, I think that went into that decision that similar to my previous job other things that are just as important to me.
Cassidy: Yeah. It almost sounds like in a weird way, given everything that was going on at the time, freelancing felt like a more stable, secure, career path for you to wander.
Emily: Definitely. Yeah. I think having had the experience of just losing your job totally unexpectedly. Yeah, it was kind of surreal at the time. And I was so lucky to have certain guardrails in place. Like I had an emergency fund at the time and received unemployment for a while. But yeah, it's just like jarring in a way, I don't want anyone to experience that, but if you have, you know how it like flips your world upside down in a way. and even though it wasn't like, a catastrophe financially speaking. I mean, I know it was for a lot of people. It just, the feeling of like insecurity of not having any control [00:24:00] over your income is just like, that's not something I wanted to experience again. So I think that was a huge draw for me when the idea of working for myself came into my mind.
Cassidy: Yeah. It's such a weird dynamic because I think people can hear that we freelance and you think, oh my gosh, that's so risky. And, There are certain risks that come with it, but one thing that you and I have seen play out, because we do have a lot of the same clients, is that there is this security that comes with being a freelancer when you have multiple clients, like 5 to 10 clients, because if one needs to drop you for whatever reason, they're laying off people, they don't have the budget for freelancers anymore, you do have other clients who still need your help, so you're not losing 100% of your income all at once. And over the years, like we've seen full time people get laid off with some of our clients and it, it has felt very jarring for them. And it's also just a reminder of just like how lucky we are to be [00:25:00] in the position that we're in that our income is spread out between several clients.
Emily: It's a very different feeling than I had previously and like, even before COVID and having lost a job I just remember frustration with things like pay and benefits and scheduling that just, yeah, I had no control over. And to me that felt like insecurity, even though, yes, I had a paycheck coming every two weeks, it felt uncertain in other ways. Like, am I going to be able to get this time off to like visit with my family when they come to see me or something like that, you know, it's like, again, the finances are a big part of security in how you work, but I think there are other things that like play a role in it too.
Cassidy: I feel like money is on the back burner a little bit. Like you said, it's not, it hasn't always been your main motivator. You've recognized over time that you do need to actually [00:26:00] make money to be able to afford yourself that like security, but
I just feel like you're so focused on living your life, going to the beach in the sun shine, taking a quilting class on a random Thursday at 10 a. m. if you want to, taking a day off work to go camping. Yeah, it feels like you're so in your life, and I love that about you.
I think as we continue on this podcast journey, I think our listeners will also just be really inspired by you. I'm constantly inspired. You've been my main motivation for, like, adding more life into my work life balance because I'm someone who by default is just like, oh, you made 5, 000 this month. Let's make it 6, 000. Let's make it 7, 000. Oh, we're at 7, 000. Can we get to 8, 000? Like it just, the, the limit never stops in my head. So it's really nice to hear someone being like "Things look good this month. I'm gonna go to the beach."
Emily: Well, I think we're a good team because you like set a goal and then you crush it and that's amazing.[00:27:00] And I feel like, I have this thing where I'm, I'm like, I'm pretty sure I can do it, but I don't need to do it this month kind of thing.
Which, yeah, I think it's good for us to like, learn from each other a little bit in both of those ways 'cause both can be strengths for sure.
Cassidy: Yeah, I agree. Okay, so to kind of tie this back together, what are like some common threads of why you care about personal finance?
Emily: I think like you said when you were sharing your story in the last episode, money just touches every part of your life, even if it's not your biggest motivator. I definitely have noticed a change in just my day to day maybe like I'm thinking early pandemic days when I was like, just getting my freelance writing career off the ground and feeling really uncertain about my finances and when money would be coming in and [00:28:00] having that not be your default, state of mind opens up the world to so many possibilities.
And I think had I had a regular nine to five job, I don't think this would have been as dramatic of a feeling, but like trying to launch a business, like maybe you know what this feels like. During that time, I just felt like I could not afford to really think about anything else or, relax almost. Like, and I did. I'm not saying I, like, worked 24/7 because I just can't do that. If I wasn't working, I felt kind of guilty about it because I didn't feel like I was in a financially comfortable place. and so, like you were saying, I just think everyone deserves to have the brain space to like, think about other things and, feel like they can enjoy life outside of worrying about money, explore your hobbies and spend time outside and [00:29:00] travel and do all these things.
And I also think that, I mean, there's a lot of reasons I care about personal finance, but one of the big ones is , I feel like it gives you confidence because money is such a big part of life. And you can kind of get away with not knowing much about it. Like I think a lot of people do but having just a little bit of knowledge about how to save for your retirement and how to invest and how to decide where to bank and that kind of thing. Just knowing a few little things can make such a dramatic difference in how you go through the world and set yourself up for success in the future. And I, like the confidence thing is, is I think that matters to me because I don't know how much we want to get into this, but like you and I both, I think, think about money a lot of times from like the female [00:30:00] perspective and have talked a lot about how women just, have had and do continue to have different challenges when it comes to money. And I think changing that for the better starts with just having confidence about your own financial situation. So to me, it's very important for me to have, but also to like share that with other people.
Cassidy: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
Cassidy: Beautifully said. I like that you touched on the fact that like, Maybe you don't need to know as much as you think you need to know to be good with money. Unless I, did I interpret that right?
Emily: No, I think you're right. Like you don't need to know, yeah, exactly what you said, you don't need to know a lot and you definitely don't need to know as much as maybe other people want you to think you need to know to make a big difference for yourself.
Cassidy: Yeah. Cause I think that's the thing with personal finance. Like at its core, you just picture all of these like finance bros and all of this jargon. And it's, it's almost like [00:31:00] this thing, especially if, if you're a woman, like you're locked out of, you know, it's like this whole world that you can't access unless you're up on their level and you know, all this jargon and you're like a wall street bro yourself, but it is really good to kind of break all of that down and be like, no. Just a little bit of knowledge can take you so far.
Emily: Totally.
Cassidy: Well, Emily, thank you so much for sharing your story. I love you. And I think that, we all have such a unique money story experience with money and I think that it really does help to hear another person's perspective, because you and I do have some similar threads in our story, but we also had very different upbringings, like very different reasons as to why we have, like, these certain money beliefs snd so I think it's just so important for for everyone to hear about each of our experiences. So, yeah.
Emily: So, we love hearing from listeners. Again, we've said this before, but we don't want this show to be one [00:32:00] sided. So if anything specifically stood out to you or you relate to anything from this episode, we'd love to hear about it.
You can send us an email at hello@thefinancegirlies.com and let us know.
